"It Takes Two To Tango" // Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Posted on 2009.02.12 at 00:06Current Mood:
In the first entry on Gaza I wrote:
jane_etrix asked:evil The Problem.
As the title of this entry says, "It Takes Two To Tango". Sadly nowhere in the Arab-World does Israel have a true partner to dance with (unless you prefer the Ben Dover Bugalloo?). See footnote [1] for brief history of Israeli - pan-Arabic peace efforts. But let's for the sake of argument buy into the Arab rhetoric that the "Palestinian Problem" is both a completely separate issue AND the root and source of the entire Arab-Israeli Conflict.
For the past twenty years, we have actively actively and repeatedly engaged these most local Arabs (AKA "Palestinians') in numerous Peace Efforts/Processes. Guess what we got? Half of All Israeli Terror Victims Died in Six Years of Oslo War (an outdated news-item from April 2007). The "Half" and "All" being referred to here, are the total number of victims since the massacre of 1929! [2] The harder we try making peace with these Arabs, the more they increase their efforts to kill us. Hmmm, somebody seems to have a fatal flaw in understanding this whole "Peace" concept. I'm not referring to those Opposition Factions that object to peace, but to the very same groups/organizations that not an hour ago, signed the actual documents. So after so many years, is it them or US who fail to understand what we're dealing with? The Arabs are pretty damn consistent: Sign a document, ask for money, violently attack us, suggest a new document to stop the attacks. Sign a document... [ rinse and repeat ]. Knowing how strongly the International Media and damned World Opinion[Tm] sides with the "poor oppressed underdog", they consistently reassure their own followers that they have no intention of fulfilling the treaties they sign. On the odd chance that some Media here comments on this, our very own stoned-out-of-their-minds Peace Pipe Tokers (such as Peres, Bailin and others) then go through the ritual of reassuring us that these statements are merely "for purposes of internal posturing" and such. So who's insane party here? Us Israelis who expect different results from repeating the same actions [3], the world who is doing ever less to hide the rampant antisemitism behind it's "objections to Israel's policies", or the ever consistent Arabs, who insist on death and destruction for themselves, regardless of the cost to themselves?
Bottom Line: In sixty years, not a single Arab country has initiated a peace process with us. In not a single such country is there even a ghost of a Peace Movement. The last Palestinian to seriously advocate actually making peace [and quiet] with Israel was Hanan Ashrawi, nearly paid for her opinions with her life, and has mostly disappeared from the public scene some years ago.
So not until the Arabs actively change their mind [and culture] about killing Jews, and beg us for sit down and talk peace, will the killing stop. Forty years ago, Golda Meir said
jane_etrix also said:
So no, Terrorism, FGM, Honor-Killings of women [only] or children martyrs are hardly native or endemic to Islam. At least no more a part than Crusades, Pogroms or Blood-Libels are endemic to Christianity. But regretfully they seem just as inseparable in a historic perspective. The only real reason we see less of these in the Christian world today, is mostly because [most] people are just much less "Christian". In the Muslim world, we generally see the opposite trend. Muslims most anywhere, are becoming ever more radical.
[1] For over sixty some years, even before the foundation of theZionist Entity State of Israel, all we ever sought was peace with our neighbors. It even says so in our Declaration of Independence [4]. Within hours this declaration was met with gun and bayonet. In 1947 we agreed to the UN's ridiculously untenable "Partition Plan", that left Israel as three non-continuous areas. Time after time, we were attacked and then pressured into returning the areas we conquered in defense (we gave back the Sinai peninsula three bloody times). In 1979 we did finally sign a "Peace Agreement" with Egypt, giving them everything they wanted, and guess what? Thirty years later, Egyptian government schools still teach that Israel is the Great Enemy. That's a whole freaking generation born and raised on the good old' Hate after the agreement was signed! Egypt is still the greatest military threat to Israel. They have a huge US funded army, with no real enemies except us... The only reason Egypt is not more openly aggressive is because Dictator President Mubarak is between a rock and a hard place. He knows that Israel is no threat to him, and any aggression he shows will only play into the hands of Islamic fundies, the Brothers of Islam, who ARE a serious threat to him. But he still causes us as much damage as he indirectly can. The whole situation with Gaza is precisely because of this non-peace with Egypt, which makes no effort to stop the massive smuggling from Egypt into Gaza. Mr. Mubarak figures that any terrorism he exports is a net gain for himself. We DO have peace of sorts with Jordan, but then they have always been the weakest of our enemies. After we thoroughly whopped them in 1967, and King Hussein dealt with his own "Palestinian problem" in the Black September of 1969, he practically became an ally (he even tried to warn us of the impeding '73 war).
[2] List and stories of the 1357 people killed by terrorism in Israel since September 2000, the beginning of the Second Intifada AKA The Oslo War. See also breakdown by decades - 1920-1999.
[3] In this regard. Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
[4] From the translated text of the Israeli Declaration of Independence:
There will NEVER be peace in the Middle-East, until the Arabs BEG us to stop killing them.In response to which, most delightful
This sounds similar to the position of Hamas and other Islamic radical groups. "If we just kill enough Jews, they'll go away." Do you think that's going to work for them? If not, why do you think it will work for you?So I thought I'd take the time to try and explain precisely what I meant, as this is the very root of
As the title of this entry says, "It Takes Two To Tango". Sadly nowhere in the Arab-World does Israel have a true partner to dance with (unless you prefer the Ben Dover Bugalloo?). See footnote [1] for brief history of Israeli - pan-Arabic peace efforts. But let's for the sake of argument buy into the Arab rhetoric that the "Palestinian Problem" is both a completely separate issue AND the root and source of the entire Arab-Israeli Conflict.
For the past twenty years, we have actively actively and repeatedly engaged these most local Arabs (AKA "Palestinians') in numerous Peace Efforts/Processes. Guess what we got? Half of All Israeli Terror Victims Died in Six Years of Oslo War (an outdated news-item from April 2007). The "Half" and "All" being referred to here, are the total number of victims since the massacre of 1929! [2] The harder we try making peace with these Arabs, the more they increase their efforts to kill us. Hmmm, somebody seems to have a fatal flaw in understanding this whole "Peace" concept. I'm not referring to those Opposition Factions that object to peace, but to the very same groups/organizations that not an hour ago, signed the actual documents. So after so many years, is it them or US who fail to understand what we're dealing with? The Arabs are pretty damn consistent: Sign a document, ask for money, violently attack us, suggest a new document to stop the attacks. Sign a document... [ rinse and repeat ]. Knowing how strongly the International Media and damned World Opinion
Bottom Line: In sixty years, not a single Arab country has initiated a peace process with us. In not a single such country is there even a ghost of a Peace Movement. The last Palestinian to seriously advocate actually making peace [and quiet] with Israel was Hanan Ashrawi, nearly paid for her opinions with her life, and has mostly disappeared from the public scene some years ago.
So not until the Arabs actively change their mind [and culture] about killing Jews, and beg us for sit down and talk peace, will the killing stop. Forty years ago, Golda Meir said
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We can not forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."Benjamin Netanyahu once said:
"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel"These statements are just as true today, as they were when originally said. It's not that we want to kill Arabs, it's that at present we simply must, in order to survive.
Ultimately, if you were correct about Arabs (or Muslims in general) being just nihilistic and destructive, they'd be waging total war, regardless of the consequences. But they aren't.I don't know Jane, how can you say that they are NOT waging world-wide war? Any place in the world that has medium to large concentrations of Muslims, also has outright Islamic Terrorism, or has experienced their religious destruction. Denmark, Paris, London, Somalia, Indonesia and, of course, the "usual" places (like Lebanon or Gaza, in both of which the constant inter-Arab fighting is more damaging and deadly than Israel is, oh but wait the world always ignores/under-reports that). Yes, the vast majority of Muslims quietly stay at home, but that is always the case with ANY conflict. The silent masses always remain silent, giving passive support, or being too cowed [mooo] to protest what is done in their name. But publish a single cartoon, and the whole world goes BOOM! Back in the 12th century, the number of actual "weapon" carrying Crusaders was nil. It still took the world 400 years to settle down again. And that is before we even consider the poisonous effects this Muslim mindset is having on the Free World culture. The fast growing Muslim population of Europe, have their respective host governments so thoroughly shaking with fear of them. The UK has removed Holocaust education from the general curriculum for fear of offending Arabs. Denmark is prosecuting a Parliament Member for "hate crimes" because of a documentary film he made about Islam. There are plenty more such examples. Many of these Western countries, now like Iran and Saudi-Arabia and most recently Gaza, have Sharia court-systems. That is, they rule according to the most strict forms of Islamic law...
So no, Terrorism, FGM, Honor-Killings of women [only] or children martyrs are hardly native or endemic to Islam. At least no more a part than Crusades, Pogroms or Blood-Libels are endemic to Christianity. But regretfully they seem just as inseparable in a historic perspective. The only real reason we see less of these in the Christian world today, is mostly because [most] people are just much less "Christian". In the Muslim world, we generally see the opposite trend. Muslims most anywhere, are becoming ever more radical.
[1] For over sixty some years, even before the foundation of the
[2] List and stories of the 1357 people killed by terrorism in Israel since September 2000, the beginning of the Second Intifada AKA The Oslo War. See also breakdown by decades - 1920-1999.
[3] In this regard. Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
[4] From the translated text of the Israeli Declaration of Independence:
WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
