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Obama-Nation

Posted on 2009.06.28 at 22:41
Current Mood: complacent
So all you American folks, how do you think Obama is measuring up as far as internal policy goes? Is he really going to revamp health-care? Is he going to save the dead-man-walking American Industry, or has he bought you all a whole herd of white elephants? I'm really curious to know what you view-from-inside is, because many of the issues are too convoluted for a dang foreigner like myself to follow.

The reason I ask, is because from my dang foreigner POV, his foreign policy is so Full of Fail, as to be pathetic. Is he truly that naive, ignorant or just malicious? I'd go so far as blame the situation in Iran on Obama. No he had no part in rigging the elections (which take lots of advance planning), nor did he order the shooting of protesters. But Obama's complete buffoonery in face of the escalating situation regarding Iran and North Korea, made it clear to Despot Ahaminejad, that he CAN do whatever he damn pleases, and the world will ignore him. Exhibit A.

As to his general "policy" of appeasement towards the Muslim World, he's just bat-shit crazy (or stoned out of his head). To think that some of these recent statements actually got past a team of professional speech-writers and PR Drones makes me shiver. The only possible explanation is that the image being cultivated from the White House, is motivated by nothing less than antisemitism (and I'm not one to make that statement lightly). If one is to believe Obama, then the main reason (if not the only one) that the state of Israel was "created" the UN, was due to guilt over the Holocaust. Never mind that the actual vote results put this to the lie, and never mind 3000 years of Jewish history. This claim is most often heard coming from the Arabs themselves, who in the same breath claim to have lived peacefully with their Jews for centuries, which is blatantly false. Exhibit B.

Barry Rubin, a blogger I'm reading a lot of recently (thanks to Aharon Sheer) says it a lot better than I could: 1) Good Intentions Plus Misunderstanding Equals Failure and 2) The Novelist, The Violent Censors, and The President. Also of interest: 48 Hours of Reality Overthrows Obama Middle East Policy See Mr. President? All it takes is two days to demonstrate how silly you are. So much for democracy in the Near-East, eh? Ahaminejad is shooting (as in Dead) his OWN citizens. You think he's going to give a shit about anybody and anything else?

So is Obama being a clown abroad in order to distract from the fiasco at home, or what?
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Comments:

Syona aka the Silicon Shaman
[info]siliconshaman at 2009-06-28 20:53 (UTC) (Link)
Nope.. I think he's an intelligent, concerned and serious individual... who has not one clue about how he's perceived by what is in effect, an alien culture.

Think about it for a minute, he's only ever really known a middle-class, liberal, American culture. Everything he says is tinged with that world view. [same as what you say is in the context of your culture, and so on.]

He's doing better than his predecessor, at least he recognises that he is dealing with an alien culture, even if at present he doesn't understand it. The true measure will come later, as we see if he can learn to understand the Muslim culture.
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-28 21:13 (UTC) (Link)

Huh?

The last thing you can say about Obama is that "he's only ever really known a middle-class, liberal, American culture". He's probably the most culturally aware president the USA has ever had, with his colorful personal history.
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Syona aka the Silicon Shaman
[info]siliconshaman at 2009-06-28 21:25 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Huh?

yeah, sorry. That should've been: mostly ever... still, it's his 'home' culture, the one his family is from and the one he grew up in [irrespective of where he was]. Same as your's is Jewish, irrespective of the geophysical location.

You are right though, he's probably the most culturally aware President ever... which doesn't say much about the rest of them actually.

*sigh*

You know how it is though, you can't really appreciate another culture until you've lived in it, and unless you're born to it, you can't see the world the same way an insider would.
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(Anonymous) at 2009-06-28 22:02 (UTC) (Link)
Partly incompetence, partly playing to his supporters (Kos types and GE). See hillaryis44.org
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-29 16:02 (UTC) (Link)
Hello Anonymous Spammer,
If there is one thing I'm certain of, is that silly as Obama may be, he's infinitely better than that Clinton Hag, who is blatantly against Israel, unlike clown Obama, who is only so covertly. I'd sooner vote for John "That One" McCain!
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Xiphias Gladius
[info]xiphias at 2009-06-29 02:10 (UTC) (Link)
I disagree with the "hands-off" policy in Iran -- but the thinking behind it appears to be, "well, every time we've ATTEMPTED to do ANYTHING in the Middle East, we've bolloxed it up beyond all recognition, so . . . maybe don't?"

I'd rather do something -- but I'm not sure WHAT.
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-29 19:12 (UTC) (Link)

Me neither

I'm thinking that Washington is bending-over so far backwards to appease the Arab/Muslim world (Iran is actually NON-Arab), that their head got stuck "where the sun don't shine".

The following are certain:
1) Iran is working damn HARD to Build The Bomb.
2) They must NOT achieve this goal.
3) Iran, even without the bomb, is a MAJOR threat to the USA, if only through their militant proxies throughout the Middle-East, such as the Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the forces in Iraq (often accompanied by Iranian soldiers IN Iraq).
4) "Negotiating" with Iran is NOT going to change ANY of the above. Contrariwise, it only gains time for Iran, and shows weakness, emboldening Iran, who've just gone one step further, and kidnapped net another batch of [British] diplomats. Just like last time...

So for Washington to be using words in this context is just pathetic and bizarre. Perhaps the USA would be better served by stationing an actual naval strike force in the Gulf of Iran. I do NOT expect the USA to bomb Tehran, just yet. But WHEN they demonstrate that they have the A-Bomb, it would certainly be justified for Israel to preemptively nuke Tehran. I do think this is the only real way to prevent them from nuking us, as they have made clear time after time (their wish to "wipe us off the map"). The dispersed and entrenched nuclear plants are practically untouchable, and even if it was possible to destroy them all in one blow, by the time they have the bomb attacking them won't do any good. But of course by then, it will most likely be way too late.

IF Obama wants to bring democracy and moderation to the bloody Middle-East, then standing by while the so-called moderates are gunned down, is NOT going to help much.
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Xiphias Gladius
[info]xiphias at 2009-06-29 20:19 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

Er.

TERRIBLE idea.

Look -- we're in a situation where the population of Iran is largely on our side, more-or-less, or at least could be. At least, IN cities like Tehran.

Our enemy is the government of Iran, which is also the enemy of the people of Iran. The Arabic-speaking thugs in charge are the enemy of the Farsi-speaking people who actually live there.
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-29 21:37 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

Well in this regard, Obama DID get one thing right. As far as the decent modern world is concerned, Ahaminejad AND Mousavi are as Tweedledee and Tweedledum, as Obama himself said. NO real difference. So while it MAY be possible that Mousavi is the "lesser evil". As yet, this is unsubstantiated. And Mousavi is "the moderate" of the bad lot. If the people were so thoroughly being oppressed, I think we'd be seeing greater unrest than we are. The people, for the most part, DO support their government, and I have no idea where you got that Arabic vs. Farsi speakers division.

Obama said on TV (near the bottom) that
"The second thing that I think's important to recognize is that the easiest way for reactionary forces inside Iran to crush reformers is to say it's the US that is encouraging those reformers."
This statement is just plain stupid. You know why? Because the "reactionary forces inside Iran" have been most loudly making this very claim from the very start. He's right in that his IS the easiest and most effective claim to make against the opposition. So a dictatorship like Iran will MAKE the claim regardless of what the USA does! They don't care diddly for Truth and Justice For All. It is making statements like this, that show me Obama is living in some pot-stoked hippie dream-land, and doesn't know the most basic things about statesmanship.

Never mind that regarding nuking Tehran, from the Israeli POV, we really have nothing to loose.
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Xiphias Gladius
[info]xiphias at 2009-06-29 23:09 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

If the people were so thoroughly being oppressed, I think we'd be seeing greater unrest than we are. The people, for the most part, DO support their government, and I have no idea where you got that Arabic vs. Farsi speakers division.

Did you miss the part where there were days of demonstrations and riots in the streets after the election which only stopped when Arab-speaking security forces started killing Farsi-speaking demonstrators?
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-30 19:45 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

I wasn't following the news too closely. So I guess I missed that.
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Xiphias Gladius
[info]xiphias at 2009-06-30 20:09 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

Kind of important. There are DOZENS of videos on YouTube of Basij paramilitary troops shooting demonstrators. Neda Agha-Soltan was doing NOTHING when Basij troops shot her -- the video of her bleeding to death on the ground is all over YouTube.
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-30 20:36 (UTC) (Link)

That I saw

And as I said above regarding dictators penchant for truth, none other than Ahaminejad himself is now pulling the classic "wasn't me" move, saying that "Neda's death is 'suspicious'". His ambassador to Mexico went a step further and says that the USA killed Neda! (To make Iran look bad...). So you really "can't loose" with these guys.
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Xiphias Gladius
[info]xiphias at 2009-06-29 23:12 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me neither

And I get the Arab-vs-Farsi thing from multiple interviews with and autobiographies of Iranians and Iranian ex-pats. It's one of the fundamental things about the country that stands out.
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Lisa Hertel
[info]cogitationitis at 2009-06-29 10:36 (UTC) (Link)

Health Care

Living in the state that's the model for health care, I can tell you it hasn't really changed much. Before mandatory health care, about 80% of the state's residents were on insurance; now it's 85%, which still means that 1 in 7 is uninsured. Theoretically, they pay for it on their taxes, but the fine is cheaper than most health plans--if you're paying taxes at all. And of those who bought insurance, many got the cheapest they could find, which doesn't cover much, so there's no point.

Meanwhile, the providers are getting squeezed by the insurance companies. For example, pharmacies make $1.25 on a prescription, regardless of the cost of inventory, never mind that the overhead alone is $10 a prescription. And they wait up to 90 days to be paid, as well. In hospitals, procedures are pre-priced, so if there are complications, the hospital eats that cost. And local MDs are paid according to how many patients they see, which means they need to churn them over as fast as possible.
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-29 19:43 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Health Care

I don't actually expect ANY results just yet. Health care reform in a system SO entrenched, inefficient AND corrupt as it is in the USA is going to take MANY years. But is he even headed in the right direction? For 14% of the population in the #1 country of the world to be completely uninsured, is mind bogglingly pathetic. Never mind that the system itself gives you pretty BAD service, compared to practically ALL other modernized countries. I'll forgo the cynical comments.

The situation you describe is mind-boggling, although not unexpected, as greed is one hell of a motivator. Until the structure that enables this radically changes, nothing else is likely to improve much.

Medical Bills being the reason for the majority of personal bankruptcies in the USA is totally unacceptable. My son spent 24 hours in the hospital under observation, last week, due to taking a flying leap (5') into his head. They did blood tests and took X-rays. Guess what it cost me? Nada, zip, nothing. My HMO even called me up to assure me that if the ER visit ended up in hospitalization, I wouldn't even have to handle the paperwork as it goes through automatically.

While obviously NOT an initial goal, the situation that health insurance is so complicatedly expensive as to be paid by your employers as a "benefit", is unacceptable. This makes you little more than modern-age Feudal serfs.
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Lisa Hertel
[info]cogitationitis at 2009-06-29 23:55 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Health Care

Americans are pretty entrenched in the current system, even though they know it's broken. The fears are that a) government health care won't be as good, and b) it stinks of socialism. I think the stigma of socialism is slowly fading, as the 50's generation yields to the 60's generation; but the idea that you might not be able to see the doctor you want, when you want, is an anathema to most Americans.

Since I work in a top-ranked specialty hospital, I confess that the system works well for me. We make a bunch of money off of international patients as well, who perceive American hospitals to be better. But our bread-and-butter is procedures that can be done easily just about anywhere; a lot of our patients come to us for the prestige. However, it totally sucks for the average outpatient practice, community hospital, or pharmacy.
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Marjorie in Qatar
[info]qatar at 2009-06-29 10:45 (UTC) (Link)
"The reason I ask, is because from my dang foreigner POV, his foreign policy is so Full of Fail, as to be pathetic. Is he truly that naive, ignorant or just malicious?"

Having recently discussed Obama with dang foreigners in Qatar, Oman, Sri Lanka, Japan and Spain, I would venture that your POV is an Israeli one more than a foreigner one. I don't think he's naive, ignorant OR malicious. He's not omniscient, but I think he's attempting to build a foreign policy that makes sense and addresses the real issues in the world.

What he said about Israel/Palestine offended people on the Palestinian side, as well. For example, as your sources point out, it's rather galling to compare Israel's search for a homeland to the Palestinians', when the fact that Israel is in search is not Arabs' fault, but he fact that Palestines are in search IS directly due to the existence of the state of Israel. I'm sure we will argue about my having said this, but I mean on a basic level that, if Israel has been created somewhere other than where it was, the Palestinian people wouldn't be refugees right now.

So, while I'm not thrilled with how he articulated the Israel/Palestine conflict, I'm also aware that anything he said on the subject was bound to offend people on both sides. That's why they're on different sides. :-)
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Shmuel A. Kam
[info]shmuelisms at 2009-06-29 22:28 (UTC) (Link)
I meant my opinion AS A foreigner. I hardly think my opinions are universal.
I think he's attempting to build a foreign policy that makes sense and addresses the real issues in the world.
As I said, Exhibit B.
the fact that Israel is in search is not Arabs' fault,
Completely ignoring the fact that at least as many Jews were "displaced" from Arab countries, as were Arabs from "Palestine" (about 600,000 moved to/from Israel, additional hundred of thousand Jews moved elsewhere). The situation in these Arab/Muslim countries was SO bad that people literally walked away from everything they owned (if not chased by deadly mobs). Some of them proceeded to literally walk hundreds of kilometers across the dessert to get here (the easiest example to find would be the Yemenite Jews). Presently there are less than 10,000 Jews throughout the Arab-Muslim world, while over two million of the direct descendants of these Jews live in Israel (See Jewish exodus from Arab lands). This too demonstrates how unrealistic the exponential [or faked] growth rate of the number of poor "Palestinian refugees" is (some sources claim 10 million).
if Israel has been created somewhere other than where it was, the Palestinian people wouldn't be refugees right now.
I'd counter that by saying that if Israel has been created somewhere else, there would be NO such thing as "Palestinians", as the majority of them moved here, due to the Jewish development of the region. But we have already had that argument before (which wasn't really resolved then either), so I won't go there again.
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The Mad One
[info]madfedor at 2009-06-29 15:24 (UTC) (Link)
My expectations of every politician are low to begin with, whether I voted for them as candidates or not... so, perhaps, my perspective is not one that can readily answer your questions about Obama the president. I never bought into the hype over Obama the candidate.

That said, I have a few questions myself.

Regardless of opinions either way concerning their legitimacy, do the WB settlements impede progress towards peace, or not? If not, why not? I don't like Israel's security risks any more than you do. At some point, though, some risks will just have to be taken. And, no, I'm not being cavalier about your safety or the lives that might be lost at military and civilan targets. Your family is just one of several in my thoughts every time terrorism is reported in Israel.

I've followed the "Obama was too soft" rhetoric closely, and my conclusion is that US politicians continue their lifelong quest to second-guess the winners of elections in order to bolster their chances of not being losers in the next elections. With respect, what should Obama have done or do differently with Iran and N. Korea? What is the expectation that either regime would have behaved differently if Obama had done or said things differently?
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